RE: [dcab-l] Looking to book gigs, but have a conundrum....

Good comments by Bill and Lissy.  I think what a lot of musicians fail to consider are the economics of running a venue.  Look at someplace like the Friendly Inn or the Tiffany Tavern.  They make money on food and drinks.  For them to make $500 to pay the band, they need to make a PROFIT of $10 from 50 customers.  Doesn’t sound to hard does it?  The Friendly only seated about 40 people.  On a good night with music, I bet they rarely made a profit of $1,000.  There were a lot of nights where there were only 20 people there.  The venue owner/operator has to average out those tough nights with the good nights.  Venue owners typically don’t care whether the music is good or not; their concern is whether the music positively projects the image of their establishment and makes money for them.  Gisela (The Friendly Inn) and Ted/Nancy (Tiffany Tavern) were a bit unique in that they came to appreciate bluegrass music and musicians and stuck with bluegrass through the years.  To most other owners, it’s simply a business proposition.  And given the size of their establishment, the amount of money their patrons are willing to spend, whether a cover charge works for them or not all are the basic economic issues that they evaluate to determine how much they can pay a band.  If you owned one of these establishments, would you want to go to the extra work and expense if it was only a break even proposition for those nights?

 

I wish those venues could pay more, but I understand their business calculations.  That’s one of the reasons Blue Daze did not go out of our way to play “club” type venues other than the Friendly Inn.

 

Tim Kruzic

 

 

From: dcab-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:dcab-l@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Foster
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 1:55 PM
To: dcab-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [dcab-l] Looking to book gigs, but have a conundrum....

 

I think that is due to a band wanting to play 'somewhere',,,, but then they never progress, never become a 'draw'. so they never get the negotiating power. So they stay put. Enough bands have done that, so promoters and venues know they can get cheap bands and don't have to pay for 'better' ones.
Bill

On 4/2/2013 1:46 PM, Matt wrote:

 

Money, certainly, has been lacking in the bg equation, but usually it's present to some degree. I would agree with your contention that the low payment standards have added to this. So too, has the perception/reality that the bg followers dont spend alot when they get there.

 

I'm still questioning why someone would play at a place that only allows for the tip jar proceeds for the musicians.

 

Exposure and subsequent gigs?  Maybe for the right place.

 

Would like to hear some opinions, tho...

 

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:05:50 PM UTC-4, STUART FOSTER wrote:

Good question Matt. Been doing this for 35 years.
Part of the conundrum is that many, many bands have for years played on
the cheap just to get a place to play. The low pay has been accepted so
venue owners see bluegrass music as a cheap way to get people in the door.
You have to charge a fair price to make it worth your while to make the gig.
If you get a 3-hour job and you have to bring your own PA ---
you have to be there at least an hour before to set up, and an hour
after to tear down and pack up. 3 hours is now 5 hours (plus travel time
to and from).
What's it worth to you? If you charge the venue $500 bucks and you have
a 5-piece band - how's that work out.... about $33 bucks an hour each.
Less than $100 for 5 hours of work and travel. And you know the venue
will NOT pay $500. So how low do you go for 5 hours of your work, your
talent, etc.

Thoughts??      Bill Foster
On 4/1/2013 8:33 PM, Matt wrote:
>
> I dont want to book places that don't pay, and make bands rely on the
> tip jar.
>
> Tip jar gigs? Dont want to do them.
>
> But there are some venues that are popular with the bands that work on
> this basis.
>
> Perhaps someone with some experience can elaborate on the benefits.  I
> can imagine what they might be, but its hard to see a case where
> supporting a venue that doesn't support the band is worth it in the
> long run.
>
> Thanks in advance for your take!
>
>
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